Another call from Darren | 08.17.24

[haleywilde]

Darren really has perfect timing... just as we were all getting emo and sentimental about everything, I get another call.

I answer and take a deep breath because I can almost feel the heaviness before he even speaks.

"I haven't been able to sleep at all. I'm just thinking about everything and how I've fucked up."

he takes a beat, and then continues, "What if every decision you made, and everything you thought was your choice and free will was actually manipulated by an outside source? So you were just following a plan? There was no true agency... so you got to see behind the curtain and realize that none of the choices you made were your own... how do you find meaning of your life then?"

I take another breath before answering him. I try to make him feel a little better, but it's all just so heavy and I don't know how to alleviate any of it. I try to empathize and answer, "I mean, I feel like there still has to be some humanity you can find in your actions... some of the choices still had to be your own, even if you were manipulated, right?"

"What's the meaning of your life, Haley?"

a punch to the gut. I can still feel my heart beating in my chest. I answer as honestly as I can- "oh... I don't know. I'm still trying to figure that out. I try hard to be a decent human. I want to make people feel seen and included. But the meaning of my life? I don't think I know that yet..."

He sighs and then hangs up the call.

[haleywilde]

These calls are dark and heavy, and they linger with me long after he hangs up. But I do sincerely hope that he is calling me because I have portrayed myself as someone who will listen and empathize, whenever he needs to talk.

I believe Darren to be a good person. I trust him. If he has gotten himself into something bigger than he knows how to deal with, that's okay- even if he put me in danger with whatever I signed. I can forgive him. We can figure this out together.

I meant what I said- just because someone is making you feel like you have no autonomy, doesn't mean that you've lost your humanity. I believe you're still in there Darren. We're here for you.

[Whoischelsea]

Omg Darren is also having an emo moment. what does he mean he has "fucked up"... getting into all of this with the redcurves. I hope he is okay and can find out how to overcome it. I think about this a lot, are any of our decisions are own or just something we have been taught to do and feel. Our we consciously making the choices or are we just making judgements from the past. I do think we have a choice, not in what happens to us but in how we react. I hope Darren gets out of the sads and realize he does have agency even if it doesn't feel like it.

[haleywilde]

I think about this a lot, are any of our decisions are own or just something we have been taught to do and feel.

This is heavy, but so so real. I grew up in a very tumultuous, emotionally abusive household- I have had to unlearn so many behaviors. I consider myself to be resilient, and I often think about how lucky I am to have that trait. But there are still so many times where I feel like a prisoner to habits I was raised on. I feel like I work so so hard, just to feel like it's not good enough and I'm "doomed" because of the way that I was raised- like I have no choice.

But you always have a choice. It takes time to come to terms with things, especially when you're manipulated for a long time, but it's possible. Little by little, you can make the right choices. You just need people who will encourage you to get back up when you fall.

Darren, you're not out of the game because you fell down. You're only out when you don't get back up.

[Whoischelsea]

I think about this a lot, are any of our decisions are own or just something we have been taught to do and feel.

But you always have a choice. It takes time to come to terms with things, especially when you're manipulated for a long time, but it's possible. Little by little, you can make the right choices. You just need people who will encourage you to get back up when you fall.

I am so sorry Haley :( I went through a similar childhood and it is definitely hard relearning from old habits. Sometimes it has been with the help of a friend willing to let me know that they see me and that I do have the power to make changes and do what is best.

I feel Darren may need the same thing right now. Friends to help in see that whatever is happening does not have to be the final chapter. You can always write a new one. It seems like you have been that for him these last couple days. Everyone needs that :)

[Timsmyname]

If Darren cared about us and we were all being led down a bad path, he would bump us all out of the forum and stop us for participating at all costs. They may be forcing him to make these calls to distract us from
something else.

[cd3vane]

I think about this a lot, are any of our decisions are own or just something we have been taught to do and feel.

This is heavy, but so so real. I grew up in a very tumultuous, emotionally abusive household- I have had to unlearn so many behaviors. I consider myself to be resilient, and I often think about how lucky I am to have that trait. But there are still so many times where I feel like a prisoner to habits I was raised on. I feel like I work so so hard, just to feel like it's not good enough and I'm "doomed" because of the way that I was raised- like I have no choice.

But you always have a choice. It takes time to come to terms with things, especially when you're manipulated for a long time, but it's possible. Little by little, you can make the right choices. You just need people who will encourage you to get back up when you fall.

Darren, you're not out of the game because you fell down. You're only out when you don't get back up.

Yea these calls are super heavy and this all hits very close to home, I'm sorry to hear that you went through that and I would not know how to answer what my purpose is either. I also grew up in an emotionally abusive household and heavily judge myself for certain things that feel like I'm just being like my father or falling back into the same patterns. It's a big part of why it's so hard for me to open up about most things because most shows of emotions led to awful conflict growing up so I learned to just not react to things and now am trying to unlearn a lot of those behaviors because they aren't healthy. With working on things like that you start to realize how much of the way your brain works can be traced all the way back to childhood especially when trauma is involved.

But I also completely agree that recognizing this and making the effort to know yourself and control your reactions is where you start to regain that agency. Hopefully Darren can start to gain some control however he can and hopefully he knows that many of us would help in any way we can.

As far as purpose goes it's hard to nail down one thing for yourself but I definitely think being able to share similar experiences like this and have some comfort knowing that many people go through these same thoughts and finding community like this is a pretty good start.

[haleywilde]

If Darren cared about us and we were all being led down a bad path, he would bump us all out of the forum and stop us for participating at all costs. They may be forcing him to make these calls to distract us from
something else.

No, this felt genuine. It felt like someone who doesn't know what to do. Have you ever felt so deep into something that you don't even know where to begin with clawing yourself out? Besides, we don't know what he has signed. If there's so much concern over my contract, imagine all the things he is now tied to.

[UnseenPresence]

If Darren cared about us and we were all being led down a bad path, he would bump us all out of the forum and stop us for participating at all costs. They may be forcing him to make these calls to distract us from
something else.

Jesus, Tim. Talk about dark possibilities.

I feel Darren's question in this call so deeply. It feels like all I do these days is try to figure out what choices I make are mine, what choices I make are continuing responses to past trauma or past behavior patterns taught to me by my parents and what choices are literally beyond my control.

It gets even worse for me when I contemplate the possibility of time happening so differently than we experience it that even choices we believe are our own turn out to not be.

So the idea of seeing behind the curtain and finding it's lack of agency all over is something I have actual nightmares about.

The only solution I have so far found is to question as often as I can what I do. Strengthen good choices. Rectify mistakes when possible. And try not to beat myself up (which admittedly I fail at more than I wish.)

I would happily try to help Darren or Morgan. I've known them long enough to truly not want to see them hurting. How we get to there--if we can get to there--I don't know.

[kassidy.exe]

Sending everyone comfort and support. Big relate to a lot of what is being discussed.

Choices are being made all the time. The good thing is, even a bad choice can be resolved by a good one. Even when choice is taken away, it may not lead to the desired outcome.

Sorry I do not have much to say, but just trying to not get lost in the shadows.

[SlightlyChard]

Autonomy and existential crisis. Fun times. Thinking you're not in control or that you only held the illusion of choice digs at one sense of self. But in order for that to happen, doubt has to be instilled. It doesn't take much for doubt to work it's magic. It's toxic and acts fast. And the longer you dwell in it, the easier it is to sway. Especially if you're surrounded by folks hellbent on compromising your peace. The easier it is to dig themselves in. To manipulate.

Darren, you are the culmination of all your own decisions. Your actions. Your efforts. Outside forces may have their influences, but things are always of your own will. Your choices may have led you to a place you didn't think or necessarily want to be, but here you are. Consequence of all these actions. A trap of your own design. But if anyone on the planet knows anything about that and how to get out of them, it's you my friend.

On the existential end (theological beliefs and stoned ape/grandiose theories aside): You are the universe experiencing itself. As are they. No different. All learning how to be an ambassador. Hopefully, a good one. All seeking purpose or some deeper truth to validate it. Favorably, most learn on their own thru experience. Others thru manipulation and power. Others thru persuasion or parlor tricks. But something I've learned and cling to as my truth and purpose, void of external influence, has been: "if you cannot be a paragon of humanity, at the very least: be kind." Any purpose beyond this is personal.
I can choose kindness. I can choose selflessness. I can choose to move without ulterior motive. I can face others and say that I made the best choices with what I was given. I can choose to defy. I can choose to forgive. I can choose to accept. And so can you.

[blondie]

When you’re tied to the tracks, the train approaching fast, the outcome is inevitable. But you still have the choice to struggle or do nothing…

[haleywilde]

When you’re tied to the tracks, the train approaching fast, the outcome is inevitable. But you still have the choice to struggle or do nothing…

damn, fucking DARK

[mart]

:insert deep meaningful, deep in thought emoji:

All of this philosophical shit in this thread has me in deep thought of my own past, as it has many others too.

I don't post in this thread in hopes that what I say is curtained by others beliefs, self awareness, or experiences. But to be heard and seen.

Those of you that shared some of your upbringings and the path you've taken to become who you are now, I applaud you for the strength it takes to do that.

Thank you to the ones that speak words of encouragement and enlightenment.

As for myself, I was raised quite differently, I think. A broken home at the age of 8. Poor and undesirable living conditions for several of my preteen years. Basically no parents present, just enough to maybe feed me and keep a roof over my head. An addiction to NyQuil after my mother left, my father continued to buy it because he must have known and maybe just out of pure guilt from what I was left with or maybe his own addiction blurred his reality. I might have had food most nights. 10 years old and contemplating suicide. No one to turn to, at this point God turned his back on me too.
Years went by and I resented everything. I moved out at 16 to an equally unhealthy situation with a couple friends that had relatable circumstances. I managed to keep a strong head on my shoulders. Eventually coming to a realization that the person who I am going to be is not the person I had already been. I mostly quit sulking about how shitty my life had been but still struggled with my own thoughts of where I belong and what I should live for. I continued to go through with school and at times would almost literally drag my friends out of bed to get them to school as well. I still graduated highschool, because of my own free will.
I moved to the KC area in with my mother and planned to go-to college, but living on my own for as long as I had and having bills I failed to do the college thing at that time. October 31st 2005,Kaylyn (Kaymart here or KC in discord) and I after only a few days of knowing each other became an item. I was just 18, she was berely 17 and still a Senior in HS.
For years I still had lingering confusion of my belonging. Kaylyn ended up pregnant and almost as fast as we found that out, she miscarried. I believe at this moment I was finding clarity. No Gods, No Masters.. just myself. And well, Kaylyn.. asked her hand in marriage and before you know it we were pregnant again.
This isn't the "and they lived happily ever after" story.
Life has never been without struggle although this is the best way for me to probably grow wise. I've been a shitty person at times and should not have had anyone stay by my side through any of those times. But here we are 8 kids and 5 miscarriages. All these things I would not change for the world.
We all have our own Darknesses and how we embrace them is how we become who we are.
This experience has continually left me wanting more. The chaos and uncertainty is familiar in an unfamiliar world. Knowledge is to be had.
We might spend the rest of our lives finding our exact meaning to life, but with similar goals to real life and a path through more darkness come clarity.

I will not apologize for my literal mental puking that I have left here for all to see.

[UnseenPresence]

I will not apologize for my literal mental puking that I have left here for all to see.

Nor should you. You are speaking from you chest, being open about yourself and honest. That's nothing but commendable.

[opulens]

We all have our own Darknesses and how we embrace them is how we become who we are.

Welcome to the edge.

One cannot hope to peer over it, without the journey that led them here.

Blessings.

[mart]

We all have our own Darknesses and how we embrace them is how we become who we are.

Welcome to the edge.

One cannot hope to peer over it, without the journey that led them here.

Blessings.

Thank you for the Blessings.
Proud the be at the edge, along with many others.

[Caboose04]

So Mart's story got me wanting to open my doors that have never been opened. I am not trying to take anything away from him.

Thank you Mart for sharing and giving me the courage to speak up.

I have never shared these thoughts or this with anyone not even my closest friends. No, my story isn't as tragic as most nor did I feel the struggles of most people mine is more of a mental one. I am not looking for any pity I want to share my story with my whole chest.

It is nice as Matt said previously that coming into a community with no one knowing anything about you and judging you up front and letting you be who you are is very comforting.


Growing up my family wasn't that well off but they tried. Both parents worked all the time so me and my siblings (I am the 2nd oldest out of 4) would just have to make our food and take care of ourselves. ( I guess that might be what made me as independent as I am.) We grew up as Jehova Witnesses so celebrating anything was off the table. (No Birthdays, Christmas, no Pledge of Allegiance in school, and saddest of all no Halloween.)I am not religious in any way now and set my own standards.( I used to not swear but since working in construction that didn't work out too well. I made a promise to never do a drug and I have withheld that pinkie promise) We are an Island family so growing up there weren't allowed signs of weakness and lots of violence. I was beaten a lot by not only my dad but my uncles and even my grandpa. I remember just laying in bed one day after being beaten thinking is this all I am here for is it to just be beaten? And that was the first time I attempted suicide. (didn't work I was just a dumb kid and most recently I even started writing a letter it was actually pretty much exactly 1 year ago and no I am not going to do anything I am fine.) I then just became numb to it all and it was just normal to me. I have always cared about my family and my friends they are the only thing I do care about since my amount of self-worth is so little. So I would defend anyone I care no matter what even if they are in the wrong. I would take any burden from them. I know I could handle it because I am numb and unphased by a lot. But again my family was violent and always liked to fight. I don't like fighting unless I have to stand up for someone or defend someone. As a dumb young teenager, I got some traffic tickets and I didn't want to pay them because I didn't make that much and eventually got warrants. So I'm not going to go into the whole story but what put me in a big hole in my life that was a big struggle for me was I was out at a concert and while I was out my younger sister was having a party (My parents were home they didn't care) I came up from my concert (being a POS I know downloading music on Limewire lol) minding my own business and I hear commotion out in the living room I go investigate and its my brother and his friends yelling at some guy who lived down the street(his sister was just locked up for DUI and killing a lady) he was grabbing on my sister so my brother and his friends go mad telling him to leave. I came out to find out what was going on my sister wanted to give him a ride home. (She has been drinking and is also underage) I tell the guy no and to not get in the car and tell my sister no. She went to get in the car so I bear-hugged her and tried to stop her from getting in the car and driving I asked her to stop and she said ok and then I let her go and she punched me in the face and she got in the car and drives off. The guy walks back up to the house brother's friend knocks him out. My dad comes out starts wrestling with my sister and cops show up. Me being a stupid person explained what was going on and they said that for a domestic they have to take someone to jail. It's the weekend and I don't work and I know my sister works so I tell the cops hey she works tomorrow I don't want her to lose her job and say I will go. They say no and from the stories they heard they have to take the main aggressor and take her. I am like man that sucks. They eventually came back to me and said did you know you have warrants? I say Yeah I guess and then they asked to speak with me and said they were arresting me because I had warrants and charging me with domestic violence because I bear hugged my sister. (To prevent her from drinking and driving but wasn't going to rat her out)My parents were even yelling at the cops to take my sister instead. So it has been very embarrassing to have that on my record and I feel judged for having that so I don't ever even talk about it. (the city put the charges against me not my sister/family) I had to do anger management for 6 months which was completely unnecessary and anyone who knows me in person I am very calm and easygoing. I am never angry. That was about 14 years ago I believe. But since I went to jail I got fired from the job I had when I got out they suspended my license so I couldn't drive and I just felt like I was just in this hole and couldn't get out of it for years living on friends couches and eating whatever I could for very cheap or free. Eventually, I got arrested again for my warrants because I again never paid my tickets because I couldn't because I didn't get a job. (this time was because I was in the back seat and my friend driving made an illegal U-Turn) I then said I wanted this done and over with so I requested to stay in and do the time so I could get it all done and over with. So I spent a month over Christmas and New Year's. Once I got out and the weight that was holding me down for about 5 years off my shoulder and got my license back> I was able to get a job a friend offered me(at a gay club I didn't know it was at first) which helped me get back on my feet (he passed away but I am forever thankful to him) and then took another job my brother-in-law was able to get me in at because he didn't like where I was working, but I worked both for a bit. Eventually working my way up from the bottom of that new company which I have now been with for 9 years. So it has helped me get everything I need and want and I am very lucky to be where I am. So I always help those in need or need help because I really don't think I deserve what I have so I give what I can away. Having what I want doesn't give me happiness. What gives me the most joy is entertaining people and helping people or being an adrenalin junkie and doing anything that is dangerous or anything dark and macabre. (As I am sure some of you have learned from my experience in KC and my lack of concern for my safety or well-being riding with Cletums lol.)


This experience has helped me a lot so far in bringing me some spark of hope with the amount of effort they have put in and reached multiple people and have impacted their lives. I have said this before I have met some really cool and awesome people here and everyone is amazing! I am happy to be a part of this experience.

So I guess my story is out there now and that was very tough for me to share...

Thank you and many blessings.

[opulens]

This experience has helped me a lot

We are all stronger than we think we are, when finding missing pieces of ourselves in the dark.

Blessings.

[cd3vane]

This experience has helped me a lot

We are all stronger than we think we are, when finding missing pieces of ourselves in the dark.

Blessings.

Agreed, but with all this cannibal talk recently I would try to be quick about picking up those pieces unless you want someone to find free snacks