Are the Redcurves real?

[cd3vane]

Okay I've started thinking too much about this so prepare for things to probably get more confusing. We know that Dorothea was "someone else before" and that opulens knew that someone else to me that implies that he has not been Dorothea for very long since we also know that opulens got here around the time Morgan arrived in KC this year. From this I have a whole bunch of questions and thinking about their origins

First, what does this imply for the other Redcurves and for his memories? Was there an actual Dorothea Redcurve that has these memories, that had a wife and owned this land and this haunt and this is some kind of recreation of him based on the real Dorotheas actual memories? How much of what we currently see is actually fabricated? Are the rest of them actual redcurves or are they all brainwashed into thinking they are? At the very least if Dorothea was someone else not that long ago, the rest of them would have to be convinced that he is actually their Dorothea, the real one, because otherwise you won't just believe that some guy shows up and takes the place of your father figure. And there are a lot of them we have a whole family tree with interconnected relationships revolving around Dorothea so they must all have memories that include him but if Dorothea that we know recently became Dorothea wouldn't that mean all of that has to be fabricated as well?

So my current working theory is that maybe it is true that there "once was a family..." and that part is real but the redcurves as we know them are not actually that family. My other piece of evidence is the whole what came first the Dorothea or the wheel situation that for some reason has continued to not sit right with me. So if we take into account that Dorothea spun the wheel that chose Kansas as their location then he was around before they chose Kansas and if he was around before they chose Kansas, I think he might be an elite or at least he was before becoming Dorothea, I don't think the Elites were hanging out with redcurves from the place that they did not even know they were going yet so... what if the Redcurves are all Elites or at least not actual redcurves but people from wherever they got them brainwashed into thinking they are in order to fulfill their goal in Kansas. We compared the wheel situation to Cabin in the Woods early on and in that they make the characters play certain archetypes in order to fully complete the ritual and appease the old gods so maybe more of this is manufactured than we thought in order to make whatever this is work.

Maybe our red ants were painted red or maybe I'm just going insane but either way we still have the bigger questions of who owns the jar, who's doing the painting or placing of the types of ants and what is the end goal with the vessel the Elites need. Also disclaimer, I have not been to the event and only have the info that has recently come out from it so maybe a lot of this has answers I don't know about but still interested to see everyone's takes on this!

[Larry Meyers]

SOP for OSDM is to brainwash people into playing roles, and therefore appearing to us as real people, or as actors playing real people. I'm not certain it matters how much of their story is real or if there are or were actual Redcurves. I think what matters is that we care about them, and that they (and we) are the ants in OSDM/Briarberg's jar.

Would you be kind enough to remind me -- and I know you and everyone else except one bedwetting omnishambles are indeed kind enough because assisting community members with story points is good form -- if Dorothea spun the wheel or the Elites did, or both?

I think the Elites did so and the wheel may be an alchemical wheel.

[kevin]

Dorothea has mentioned something about his molecules being blended together, and that doesn't sound like ordinary brainwashing.

[blondie]

Dorothea has mentioned something about his molecules being blended together, and that doesn't sound like ordinary brainwashing.

This reminds me of when I was obsessed with understanding the opulens/Morgan thing and opulens described it thusly:

(Apologies if I have shared this before but it feels relevant)

“Imagine for a second pouring a beer into a cider. Don't imagine the taste, but just go with me here.
What you may see is now one drink, fully mixed.
But look closer, and you will see the particles of each drink are still alone.
Drifting in a universe of particles like they always were.
Is the beer the total group of particles?
Or is each particle still fairly classed as beer?
While we may become scattered, our components lost in a mist, it is, or was, still us.“

[cd3vane]

Dorothea has mentioned something about his molecules being blended together, and that doesn't sound like ordinary brainwashing.

This reminds me of when I was obsessed with understanding the opulens/Morgan thing and opulens described it thusly:

(Apologies if I have shared this before but it feels relevant)

“Imagine for a second pouring a beer into a cider. Don't imagine the taste, but just go with me here.
What you may see is now one drink, fully mixed.
But look closer, and you will see the particles of each drink are still alone.
Drifting in a universe of particles like they always were.
Is the beer the total group of particles?
Or is each particle still fairly classed as beer?
While we may become scattered, our components lost in a mist, it is, or was, still us.“

So there was a real OG Dorothea and the Elites have poured him into our Dorothea, got it sounds good to me

[cd3vane]

SOP for OSDM is to brainwash people into playing roles, and therefore appearing to us as real people, or as actors playing real people. I'm not certain it matters how much of their story is real or if there are or were actual Redcurves. I think what matters is that we care about them, and that they (and we) are the ants in OSDM/Briarberg's jar.

Would you be kind enough to remind me -- and I know you and everyone else except one bedwetting omnishambles are indeed kind enough because assisting community members with story points is good form -- if Dorothea spun the wheel or the Elites did, or both?

I think the Elites did so and the wheel may be an alchemical wheel.

When we originally learned about "the wheel" it was a conversation leaked between 2 Elites we assumed but then Maddison told Haley when she went to KC the first time before the event, because of her mystery box, that Dorothea was the one that spun the wheel so I think the answer is both which is why it was never fully adding up for me.

[campbellstruts]

so... what if the Redcurves are all Elites or at least not actual redcurves but people from wherever they got them brainwashed into thinking they are in order to fulfill their goal in Kansas. We compared the wheel situation to Cabin in the Woods early on and in that they make the characters play certain archetypes in order to fully complete the ritual and appease the old gods so maybe more of this is manufactured than we thought in order to make whatever this is work.

I am for this theory. Maybe the redcurves and the elites are people that have been brainwashed into completing a ritual. This would explain the energy feeding that maximillian described to me, how they are using this entropy and trying to harmonize it into a form they can use - probably needing to put it into a vessel of some sort. but why and how and for what purpose?

as for the SOP of the OSDM that larry brought up...is it possible that darren brought in these dangerous investors (aka elites) but then it quickly escalated out of his control? kind of how the past storyline was clint and darren (and someone else I cannot remember) recruited these people but then it quickly went sour and now there is an actual ritual that needs to be completed?

[cd3vane]

so... what if the Redcurves are all Elites or at least not actual redcurves but people from wherever they got them brainwashed into thinking they are in order to fulfill their goal in Kansas. We compared the wheel situation to Cabin in the Woods early on and in that they make the characters play certain archetypes in order to fully complete the ritual and appease the old gods so maybe more of this is manufactured than we thought in order to make whatever this is work.

as for the SOP of the OSDM that larry brought up...is it possible that darren brought in these dangerous investors (aka elites) but then it quickly escalated out of his control? kind of how the past storyline was clint and darren (and someone else I cannot remember) recruited these people but then it quickly went sour and now there is an actual ritual that needs to be completed?

Not sure about this part, Darren calling in the Elites goes against the agency the Elites seem to have with choosing KC this time around and the wheel and all of that. But I do think it's an interesting question of how him and Morgan and Stephanie got involved in the first place, especially if Morgan and Stephanie are both the vessels Lazarus was talking about it seems a bit too lucky that there just happened to be a couple of vessels hanging out around the haunt when they were needed especially if we are thinking not just anyone can be a vessel

[Larry Meyers]

The only element of that theory that doesn't hold for me is that the rules of drama...errrr....I mean life....require genuine conflict. I do think there are two opposing factions at minimum. Now, you may very well be right that the RC's appear to us as oppositional to the Elites and in fact may be part of them, which would mean a truly oppositional party should exist.

Or am I missing something?

[haleywilde]

so... what if the Redcurves are all Elites or at least not actual redcurves but people from wherever they got them brainwashed into thinking they are in order to fulfill their goal in Kansas. We compared the wheel situation to Cabin in the Woods early on and in that they make the characters play certain archetypes in order to fully complete the ritual and appease the old gods so maybe more of this is manufactured than we thought in order to make whatever this is work.

as for the SOP of the OSDM that larry brought up...is it possible that darren brought in these dangerous investors (aka elites) but then it quickly escalated out of his control? kind of how the past storyline was clint and darren (and someone else I cannot remember) recruited these people but then it quickly went sour and now there is an actual ritual that needs to be completed?

Not sure about this part, Darren calling in the Elites goes against the agency the Elites seem to have with choosing KC this time around and the wheel and all of that. But I do think it's an interesting question of how him and Morgan and Stephanie got involved in the first place, especially if Morgan and Stephanie are both the vessels Lazarus was talking about it seems a bit too lucky that there just happened to be a couple of vessels hanging out around the haunt when they were needed especially if we are thinking not just anyone can be a vessel

Oh... this is true. I've been just kind of mindlessly enjoying the vibes for a while and now that I'm trying to dissect the lore again, I'm very confused haha.

My understanding when the Dorothea "choosing" Kansas thing came up originally + the leaked messages, was that the elites have a wheel with locations of where they're going next and Dorothea was the one who put Kansas on the wheel and then it was selected randomly. Cause I only asked "why Kansas" and she said "Dorothea chose it"- so the assumption was that maybe a handful of them get to nominate a place and they were upset that his got chosen. (Unless the wheel was rigged somehow, and that opens a whole other can of worms)

When Darren spoke to me in the woods warning me, he said that him and Morgan were originally brought in for "disruptive marketing," before things got out of control. That implies that someone reached out to him- whether that be the elites directly or Dan. However he also made those calls to me talking about how he made decisions that he regrets, etc. so maybe Darren did make some sort of deal that he's not proud of that then put himself, Morgan, and us in danger. Me signing the contract bound me to something that I still don't know and he seemed to feel guilty about dragging me in.

[Larry Meyers]

When Darren spoke to me in the woods warning me, he said that him and Morgan were originally brought in for "disruptive marketing," before things got out of control. That implies that someone reached out to him- whether that be the elites directly or Dan. However he also made those calls to me talking about how he made decisions that he regrets, etc. so maybe Darren did make some sort of deal that he's not proud of that then put himself, Morgan, and us in danger. Me signing the contract bound me to something that I still don't know and he seemed to feel guilty about dragging me in.

This buttresses the theory that Briarberg/OSDM got their hooks into them in 2017 during The Lust Experience.

[UnseenPresence]

This buttresses the theory that Briarberg/OSDM got their hooks into them in 2017 during The Lust Experience.

I have long thought that Darren has been caught since AT LEAST 2017. Maybe earlier. So all of this tracks, at least my head.

Regarding the idea that there must be opposition--I agree. Creation (whether natural, mystical, occult, any kind) is by definition cause by the intersection of conflicting entities (even at the quantum level, where recent experiments and theories are beginning to better understand how entanglement occurs). So a ritual is happening, a vessel is needed. There has to be at least two forces brushing against each other for it to happen.

The obvious answer is Redcurve and Elite. Red and Black ants. But perhaps they are all infused, ale and beer mixed together. Perhaps the conflict is that internal mixing instead.

Or perhaps they are all "on one side" ultimately. Doesn't that leave only one likely answer for who the opposing/conflicting/other element is?

Is it possible it's us and always has been? (Here I don't mean oppositional as inherently "against" but in the sense of being the flint to the match, the necessary other half that has to exist for the flame to catch.)